|
Poker Best Special!
20% bonus on Deposits!
Join PopularPoker.com Now!
To place your Poker Bets click here!
Tuesday, June 14, 2005
Q & A with
Dalton Wagner, Founder V.O. Group, S.A.
As Founder and Proprietor of V.O. Group, S.A., Dalton Wagner has the reputation of ferreting out new markets and attacking while other companies sit on their hindquarters and watch. One market that has always eluded offshore bookmakers is the ‘guy who likes dealing with his credit bookmaker’. Typically this market has been untouchable for the offshore bookmaker, but NOT for Dalton and V.O. Group, S.A. We had an opportunity to catch up with Dalton Wagner on his last visit to Panama.
Vegas Offshore: Tell us about this new product that you are calling your Price Per Head Agency Relationship.
Wagner: As you know, one market that a post-up sportsbook has historically been unable to attack is the huge market of bettors that have been betting with their local guy for years. The reason this market exists is the personal relationship that an onshore bookie has with his clients. Sportsbooks have attempted to educate the player and lure him away from the local bookie, however we have taken another tact. We have partnered with local bookies around the world to make their offering better and more valuable.
Vegas Offshore: So instead of attacking the local guy, you actually approach him with your offer?
Wagner: Exactly. The fact is that the relationship is the last thread holding clients to a local guy. Yes, there is the fact that the local guy extends credit, but with bonuses and promotions we can overcome that offering. The key is the relationship.
Vegas Offshore: I’m confused, please explain.
Wagner: As you know, the onshore bookmaking market has lost steam to the offshore providers like V.O. Group, S.A. The reason is that the offerings that I can provide are far superior to those that any onshore bookmaker can offer. The PPH concept is based on allowing the onshore bookmaker to provide his clients my offerings on a purely anonymous basis via an online automated tool. Rather, by signing up with my PPH service, an onshore bookmaker can compete with all offshore sportsbooks on equal footing offering 24-hour wagering, 365 days a year. All the bookmaker does is use an online system to assign PINs and PASSWORDs and pay me a small fee per week for the service.
Vegas Offshore: Wait a minute. So, this means that a small time operator in Cleveland, Ohio can offer all the same things that V.O. Group, S.A. does without making the multi-million dollar investment?
Wagner: Now your catching on. For as little as $25 per head per week, a guy in Ohio can compete with the biggest sportsbooks in the world. And, better yet, never answer another wagering phone call again.
Vegas Offshore: OK, I get it. They use your automated tool to drive their clients to your software online, and they simply pick up the figures at the end of the week.
Wagner: Exactly correct with one exception. Their clients can bet on the phone via our call center staffed with 250 people OR bet online. Again, they have access to all of the offerings V.O. Group, S.A. provides including call center access, client services and technical support.
Vegas Offshore: Is the PPH product only based on sports wagering?
Wagner: Very good question. The answer is no. We actually have the ability to offer clients two (2) casino products including blackjack, baccarat, slots, 3 card poker, roulette, etc. And, clients may also bet on horses at over 350 tracks worldwide.
Vegas Offshore: Wow! That truly is incredible. So, a bookie that has one client can compete with the likes of MVPsportsbook.com on equal footing?
Wagner: Exactly correct. But, there are two keys to the success of the product launch. The first is being able to compete head to head with the biggest sportsbooks in the world. But, arguably the most important factor is that since the onshore bookie no longer has to answer phones or track plays, he can spend all of his time picking up new clients, NOT writing bets.
Vegas Offshore: I remember that in a prior interview you had stated that the key is not winning, but finding more losers.
Wagner: An embarrassing quote, but true. Amateur bookmakers think that the key is to beat the clients you have. That is a huge mistake. The key to getting rich as a bookmaker is finding a new client every single day of the year. The numbers take care of themselves, the key is to get more and more people playing. That is the TRUE BEAUTY of the PPH software and agency relationship.
Vegas Offshore: Do you have any success stories to tell?
Wagner: I have many, but will tell you one that emphasizes what the PPH program can do. I have a bookmaker that has been working out of San Antonio, Texas for 10 years. The guy has historically made $200,000 a year from his 25 or 30 players. He was introduced to our product in July 2004, and today he is writing over 185 clients. The ability to outsource answering calls and writing tickets to us has allowed him to grow his business 600% and his revenue over 1000%.
Vegas Offshore: Why did his revenue grow more than his business? Is it because your lines are sharper than his?
Wagner: There you go again. That is the obvious mistake that everyone makes. Again, don’t worry about beating the clients. Worry about getting more clients to play. But, to answer your question directly, the ability for his clients to play in the casino, play 24 hours a day, play games/halves/quarters, props, etc. is where the extra revenue comes from. Our lines might be sharper, but the advantage is more clients betting more often.
Vegas Offshore: How many bookmakers do you currently work with?
Wagner: We are writing business for over 250 bookmakers now. Some represent groups as small as 2 or 3; and others represent groups as large as 500. Again, remember the key is finding as many clients as possible. If you get to where you are writing 15 clients or more, it is almost impossible to lose for an extended period of time.
Vegas Offshore: So how does a bookmaker learn more about this?
Wagner: Simply go to any of the V.O. Group, S.A. sites to learn more. I suggest starting at www.BettorsNet.com or calling 1-877-512-1001 or emailing agents@bettorsnet.com to get more information.
posted by
poker
@
1:14 PM
0 comments
Monday, June 13, 2005
Q & A with
Dalton Wagner, Founder V.O. Group, S.A.
As Founder and Proprietor of V.O. Group, S.A., Dalton Wagner has the reputation of making one-dollar work like three in online marketing. With formidable competition, Mr. Wagner founded V.O. Group, S.A. in 1998 and has quickly risen to be one of the largest offshore operators in the world with over 50,000 active clients. We had an opportunity to catch up with Dalton Wagner on his last visit to Antigua.
Vegas Offshore: This year has been interesting for V.O. Group, S.A. and the offshore industry as a whole (advertising changes, etc.). How do you feel about the industry at the current time?
Wagner: I feel the industry is as strong as it has ever been. We are still finding that our advertising is bringing us new clients at an ever-growing rate. Some competitors are complaining that the crimp on advertising is affecting the industry, but we are not seeing this trend. Consolidation within the industry has begun, and I am sure you will continue to see smaller competitors gobbled up, and medium to larger companies merging. The weaker will go by the wayside.
Vegas Offshore: What about the rumors of V.O. Group, S.A. being bought?
Wagner: I am glad you used the term 'rumors'. The fact is that in July 2004 three suitors approached V.O. Group, S.A. because of our record-breaking profit year. In two of the cases we did see 'value' in a merger/relationship. However, at the end of the day, we could not come to terms that were agreeable on both sides. At this time V.O. Group, S.A. stands independent. And, we are happy being independent, profitable and growing.
Vegas Offshore: It is rumored that Bet On Sports (PLC; BSS.L) was one of the suitors. Is that true?
Wagner: There were three suitors that approached V.O. Group, S.A. And, in all cases confidentiality agreements were signed. For this reason, I cannot confirm or deny who any of the potential suitors were. What I can tell you is that one was a major sportsbook player, one was a major casino player and two were PLCs. I doubt that helps.
Vegas Offshore: Well, if Bet On Sports was involved, I bet you are happy you weren't involved in their November 24, 2004 stock debacle.
Wagner: The Bet On Sports stock debacle was an over-reaction by the market in my opinion. In one day you saw their stock drop 50% in value. And, the reason was poor performance in a very short period. If you looked at the other publicly held offshore gaming companies, you saw the same thing, just not as drastic as with BSS.L. Simply put, I know the founder of Bet On Sports, I know the management of Bet On Sports, I know the staff at Bet On Sports and I would not hesitate to invest in Bet On Sports. They were, and still are, undervalued in my opinion. They are a great competitor and a great company. I wish I had some of their stock at the new adjusted price. I just don't see how you can lose.
Vegas Offshore: It is rare to hear the 'competition' speaking so highly of a major competitor. Why would you do so?
Wagner: Simple. Bet On Sports is a great company. And, I am sure they would tell you the same about V.O. Group, S.A. The fact is, that there are companies out there that make our industry stronger. And, ones that make it weaker. Bet On Sports and V.O.Group, S.A. strive to make our industry stronger and more legitimate on a daily basis (as do BetCris.com; BoDog.com; etc.). What kind of ambassador for the industry would I be if I downplayed a 'good' competitor like Bet On Sports for my own benefit?
Vegas Offshore: If Bet On Sports did approach you, would you consider a merger?
Wagner: I like being independent. But, simply put, NEVER say NEVER.
Vegas Offshore: What of the rumors that you are looking at Panama as a potential relocation site?
Wagner: Our operation currently has offices in Costa Rica, Antigua and Belize. In Costa Rica we currently have over 400 employees. With employment costs in Costa Rica on the rise, the burden of Caja and the ever-changing political climate, we have looked at several alternative locations. One of the most desirable is/was Panama. However, due to the massive failure of BetPanAm.com and the political debacle involving their past gaming commission, we have decided to stay put for the current time. I think it is very safe to say that our primary location will be Costa Rica for the next 5 years. Pending any crazy licensing or governmental changes.
Vegas Offshore: I have visited your office in Antigua, however had no idea that you employed 400 individuals in Costa Rica. Why do you need such a large staff?
Wagner: Our industry has a reputation for being lazy and getting by on a shoestring budget. Most sportsbooks, casinos, racebooks and poker rooms answer phones when it is convenient and buy computers when the ones they are operating blow-up. Most are simply embarrassing to the legitimate operators. To run an operation like ours, servicing 50,000 bettors, you need lots of space, a 1st rate phone system, fiber and satellite phone and Internet backups, IT professionals, accounting professionals, etc. V.O. Group, S.A. is currently located in 35,000 square feet of space, operating 24-hours a day, 365 days a year, and we are busting at the seems. At the current time, we are negotiating to buy the building next to us for future expansion. I think we will employ 600 people come this same time next year.
Vegas Offshore: I have noticed that you are still branching into other products. How has this strategy worked for V.O. Group, S.A.?
Wagner: In 1998 we started with our sports product. We then branched into the casino product. In 2001 and 2002 we opened several major race books and poker rooms. The fact is that we are profitable in all products. However, our core product, and hub for our advertising, is focused on the sports product. The strategy has worked, but we will not desert our core product. You can look for our re-launch of interactive betting in early 2005 and bingo in mid 2005.
Vegas Offshore: What other changes do you see in 2005 for V.O. Group, S.A.
Wagner: I think you will see V.O. Group, S.A. work more on our Internet interface to make it more gamer-friendly; you will see our company move into land-based gaming; and you will see us acquire two or three smaller competitors. Rather, you will see what you have always seen, expansion.
Vegas Offshore: What other changes do you see in 2005 for the industry as a whole?
Wagner: The strong will get stronger. The weak will get weaker. And, the acquisition race will be on.
posted by
poker
@
10:40 AM
0 comments
Tuesday, March 15, 2005
Read Below To Earn More Cash Than Ever
Are you a onshore bookmaker that wants to Minimize Legal Exposure, Increase Potential Profits, Spend More Time Enjoying the Money You Are Making, and Grow Your Business Beyond Your Wildest Dreams? If you answered ‘YES’ to one or all of these questions, then you need to look at a Price Per Head Agent Relationship with our company.
The concept of a Price Per Head Agent Relationship is based on you, the onshore bookmaker, paying our company a service fee to offer the same services that we offer to thousands of clients (on an anonymous basis).
For the first time, you will be able to offer Internet and Phone access to Sports, Horse and Casino (2 casinos) wagering to all your current clients (via a simple PIN and PASSWORD betting system). No longer do you have to compete with offshore sportsbooks and lose clients. YOU WILL BE ABLE TO OFFER EVERYTHING THAT THEY OFFER!
We are Licensed to offer bookmaking services.
We have been in business for 7 years.
We write business for 15,000 clients daily.
We are open 24-hours a day, 7-days a week, 365 days a year.
We have over 500 operators standing by to make you money!
Take advantage of our $5,000,000 USD investment to make your services better than ever. No longer will you have to answer calls all Saturday and Sunday. No longer will you have to lose clients to the offshore bookmakers. No longer will you have to worry about having your door kicked in by the authorities. Now you can compete with the Big Boys! You will simply sit back, watch the games, and earn more than ever before.
To learn more, go to our website, and click on ‘Agents’. If you prefer to use a white-labeled site without bonus and promotional text, visit www.BettorsNet.com for more information.
We look forward to being your service provider.
Call 1-888-333-6914 for more information.
posted by
poker
@
4:56 AM
0 comments
Monday, March 14, 2005
Q & A with
Dalton Wagner, Founder V.O. Group, S.A.
As Founder and Proprietor of V.O. Group, S.A., Dalton Wagner has the reputation of ferreting out new markets and attacking while other companies sit on their hindquarters and watch. One market that has always eluded offshore bookmakers is the ‘guy who likes dealing with his credit bookmaker’. Typically this market has been untouchable for the offshore bookmaker, but NOT for Dalton and V.O. Group, S.A. We had an opportunity to catch up with Dalton Wagner on his last visit to Panama.
Vegas Offshore: Tell us about this new product that you are calling your Price Per Head Agency Relationship.
Wagner: As you know, one market that a post-up sportsbook has historically been unable to attack is the huge market of bettors that have been betting with their local guy for years. The reason this market exists is the personal relationship that an onshore bookie has with his clients. Sportsbooks have attempted to educate the player and lure him away from the local bookie, however we have taken another tact. We have partnered with local bookies around the world to make their offering better and more valuable.
Vegas Offshore: So instead of attacking the local guy, you actually approach him with your offer?
Wagner: Exactly. The fact is that the relationship is the last thread holding clients to a local guy. Yes, there is the fact that the local guy extends credit, but with bonuses and promotions we can overcome that offering. The key is the relationship.
Vegas Offshore: I’m confused, please explain.
Wagner: As you know, the onshore bookmaking market has lost steam to the offshore providers like V.O. Group, S.A. The reason is that the offerings that I can provide are far superior to those that any onshore bookmaker can offer. The PPH concept is based on allowing the onshore bookmaker to provide his clients my offerings on a purely anonymous basis via an online automated tool. Rather, by signing up with my PPH service, an onshore bookmaker can compete with all offshore sportsbooks on equal footing offering 24-hour wagering, 365 days a year. All the bookmaker does is use an online system to assign PINs and PASSWORDs and pay me a small fee per week for the service.
Vegas Offshore: Wait a minute. So, this means that a small time operator in Cleveland, Ohio can offer all the same things that V.O. Group, S.A. does without making the multi-million dollar investment?
Wagner: Now your catching on. For as little as $25 per head per week, a guy in Ohio can compete with the biggest sportsbooks in the world. And, better yet, never answer another wagering phone call again.
Vegas Offshore: OK, I get it. They use your automated tool to drive their clients to your software online, and they simply pick up the figures at the end of the week.
Wagner: Exactly correct with one exception. Their clients can bet on the phone via our call center staffed with 250 people OR bet online. Again, they have access to all of the offerings V.O. Group, S.A. provides including call center access, client services and technical support.
Vegas Offshore: Is the PPH product only based on sports wagering?
Wagner: Very good question. The answer is no. We actually have the ability to offer clients two (2) casino products including blackjack, baccarat, slots, 3 card poker, roulette, etc. And, clients may also bet on horses at over 350 tracks worldwide.
Vegas Offshore: Wow! That truly is incredible. So, a bookie that has one client can compete with the likes of MVPsportsbook.com on equal footing?
Wagner: Exactly correct. But, there are two keys to the success of the product launch. The first is being able to compete head to head with the biggest sportsbooks in the world. But, arguably the most important factor is that since the onshore bookie no longer has to answer phones or track plays, he can spend all of his time picking up new clients, NOT writing bets.
Vegas Offshore: I remember that in a prior interview you had stated that the key is not winning, but finding more losers.
Wagner: An embarrassing quote, but true. Amateur bookmakers think that the key is to beat the clients you have. That is a huge mistake. The key to getting rich as a bookmaker is finding a new client every single day of the year. The numbers take care of themselves, the key is to get more and more people playing. That is the TRUE BEAUTY of the PPH software and agency relationship.
Vegas Offshore: Do you have any success stories to tell?
Wagner: I have many, but will tell you one that emphasizes what the PPH program can do. I have a bookmaker that has been working out of San Antonio, Texas for 10 years. The guy has historically made $200,000 a year from his 25 or 30 players. He was introduced to our product in July 2004, and today he is writing over 185 clients. The ability to outsource answering calls and writing tickets to us has allowed him to grow his business 600% and his revenue over 1000%.
Vegas Offshore: Why did his revenue grow more than his business? Is it because your lines are sharper than his?
Wagner: There you go again. That is the obvious mistake that everyone makes. Again, don’t worry about beating the clients. Worry about getting more clients to play. But, to answer your question directly, the ability for his clients to play in the casino, play 24 hours a day, play games/halves/quarters, props, etc. is where the extra revenue comes from. Our lines might be sharper, but the advantage is more clients betting more often.
Vegas Offshore: How many bookmakers do you currently work with?
Wagner: We are writing business for over 250 bookmakers now. Some represent groups as small as 2 or 3; and others represent groups as large as 500. Again, remember the key is finding as many clients as possible. If you get to where you are writing 15 clients or more, it is almost impossible to lose for an extended period of time.
Vegas Offshore: So how does a bookmaker learn more about this?
Wagner: Simply go to any of the V.O. Group, S.A. sites to learn more. I suggest starting at www.BettorsNet.com or calling 1-877-512-1001 or emailing agents@bettorsnet.com to get more information.
posted by
poker
@
1:18 PM
0 comments
The American roulette wheel contains 38 pockets, one marked zero, another double zero, which are colored green and directly opposite each other on the wheel design. The European wheel features a single zero. There are 18 black and 18 red numbers. The table layout might be called the “road map” for the game. It contains all the numbers appearing on the wheel and are arranged to offer a variety of bets.
Players make bets by placing cheques (chips) of various denominations on the layout.
Each roulette table has its own supply of cheques, customarily six different colors. This eliminates confusion about whose chips have been wagered on the layout. The varying chip colors allow each player to have his or her own supply of cheques of one color; with that color assigned to that player until he or she leaves the game.
Roulette chips have no value when not in use. Chips have only a “money value” after the player purchases them and are sold, by the dealer in stacks of 20.
All tables have minimum bet requirements. This means even if you were playing with low-valued chips, it would be necessary to bet a minimum number of them per decision or roll. For example, in a $1 table minimum game, you are required to place a minimum of $5 in cheques on the inside of the layout ranging from 1-36. When in doubt, ask the dealer.
After a player has finished his table play, he will cash in roulette chips to the dealer who in turn will exchange them for the regular casino chips. Casino chips may then be turned in for cash at the casino cashier.
On the American double-zero wheel, a straight up bet on one number pays 35 to 1. If this bet would be even, that is, with no House percentage, the winning bet should pay 37-1. But with a zero and double zero on the wheel, the House advantage is 5.26 per cent and approximately half of that on the European wheel.Poker Strip and Poker Tables
Let us look at the various types of bets available for the roulette player:
The two-number or split bet pays off at 17-1. To wager on two numbers at the same time, the player must put his check on the line which separates the two numbers.
A three-way bet may be made on either 0, 00 and 2 (they are connected on the layout for simple chip placement) or on any three numbers on the layout. Winning bets pay 11-1.
A four number bet (also called a corner bet) may be made by placing a check on the corner covering four numbers. A winning wager here pays of at 8-1.
There is a five-number bet, which would cover 0, 00, 1, 2 and 3, which pays off at 6-1, but since this is the only bet which gives the House almost an 8 per cent advantage, it is not a recommended play,
One may also place a six-number bet (also called a six line or line bet). It pays off at 5-1.
There are also dozens (by thirds on the layout, 1-12, 13-24, 24-36) and column row bets. On the layout, each dozen may be played by placing checks in the appropriate box. Dozens pay off at 2-1, with the column bet paying 2-1 as well.
Many players enjoy what are called even money proposition bets-the “outside” as against other bets (which were “inside” bets).
The following wagers pay off at even money:
Odd, Even, High (19-36), Low (1-18), Red, Black.
If you are wondering about the personnel operating or supervising the roulette wheel, here are some quick pointers:
Most roulette wheels with a single layout are worked by two croupiers. The croupier spins the wheel and deals the game and is called the wheel roller or dealer. In some place, depending on the amount of action and table minimums, he/she is assisted by a croupier. In essence, the dealer controls the conduct of the game including selling chips to players; spinning the wheel; throwing the ball; announcing winners; collecting losing bets and paying winners.
The croupier separates (mucks) and stacks losing chips which have been taken off the layout. Chips are stacked in piles of 20 of the same color and placed in a chip rack on the apron of the table.
You can start betting on the layout immediately after all bets from the previous spin have been collected and paid. Usually you can continue to bet until the ball begins to drop and the dealer calls out “No more bets.” Sometimes if you bet too late, your wager will be returned to you whether or not the bet wins or loses.
The usual procedure is for the dealer to announce the winning number as soon as the ball lands in a numbered slot. The dealer may point to the winning number or place a clear plastic tube on that winning number. Outside bets are usually paid off first, then inside bets. At that point, the hand is over and new betting may commence as soon as the marker denoting the winning number is removed by the dealer from the table.
Remember winning bets are normally left right on the layout. It is the responsibility of the player to collect those bets left on the layout plus those payoffs from winning outside bets before the dealer announces “No more bets” once again. If the player is not alert, by accident, those chips left on the layout will be considered wagers on the next spin.
posted by
poker
@
10:44 AM
0 comments
Monday, February 07, 2005
Interesting Biographies Of Poker Players
These brief player biographies come from the 1978 media guide, and give an idea of the caliber and background of the major players in the tournaments of the 1970s. Poker
LOUIS "SARGE" HUNSAKER Austin nightclub owner of Caesar's and the Oasis, Louis Hunsaker, whose forte is gin rummy, made an impressive showing in his first bid for the World Series championship in 1977. "I won the businessmen's tournament and placed fourth in the preliminaries, so I thought I'd just aim a little higher and enter the big game," explains the family man with three kids. Hunsaker says he's played cards at home twice a week for the past 20 years --his wife, Louise, was a formidable contender in the '77 Women's World Championship. Both describe their playing style as conservative with occasional bluffing.* "Sure we'll be back in '79," the soft-spoken nonpro shrugs. "Why not give it another shot?" Sarge showed in the championship tournament in 1978 with a third-place win of $63,000 behind Bobby Baldwin and Crandall Addington. In addition, he copped an additional third-place win of $7,800 in the nonprofessional event.
JOHNNY MOSS At 73, Odessa, Texas' Johnny Moss (1974's $160,000 winner in the World Series of Poker, and additionally, champion in 1970 and 1971), is the dean of Lone Star State players. He has been playing poker since the age of twelve and was a boy- hood friend of the Horseshoe Casino's Benny Binion and Chill Wills. One of the all-time big money winners in poker, Moss pocketed ten million dollars from the tables in 1950 --and lost it all shooting craps. He took a hiatus from Las Vegas for about fifteen years to insure his financial security with blue-chip investments before returning to big-time gambling in 1969. Called the Pro's Pro by fellow gamblers, Moss displays the cool facade, steel nerves and steady hand most authors depict in any tome about high-stakes card players. Johnny recently retired as manager of the card room at Las Vegas' Dunes Hotel and currently divides his time between his home in Odessa and the many high-limit games at several Las Vegas casinos.
WALTER CLYDE PEARSON Walter Clyde "Puggy Wuggy" Pearson is one of the best poker players in professional gambling and a champion in the Horseshoe Casino's 1973 World Series of Poker tournament. Born into a large and poor Tennessee family, he was a top-flight Navy Frogman and an equally top-flight pool shooter before taking up cards as a full-time occupation in the late '50's. An action man whose specialty is Seven-Card Stud, Pearson plays all games against any opposition. His trademark is an erratic temperament, a huge cigar and a colorful game style that almost always draws a crowd of onlookers. Pearson is easily one of the all-time aggressive players --with a talent for homespun philosophy. He's spending considerable time as a family man with his devoted wife and three children.
MILO "SLEW" JACOBSON Nobody in Las Vegas had ever heard of Milo Jacobson before he walked into the Horseshoe Casino and counted out $10,000 buy-in money for the Hold-Em championship of the 1977 World Series of Poker. They still don't know much about Milo, but it will be a long time before anyone forgets him. He hails from Sioux Falls, South Dakota. He is retired and plays poker at the local Elks Club. He enjoys a martini or two for breakfast, and usually keeps a Canadian Club within easy reach while he plays. He insists he's encountered tougher poker competition at the Elks Club. A quiet man standing well over six feet tall and pushing 300 pounds, Milo Jacobson emerged as the Cinderella challenger in '77 and was the last man out as Doyle "Dolly Doyle" Brunson bested a field of seasoned pros and amateurs for $340,000. "I'll be back next year," he drawled casually, "and probably bring a bus full of the Elks with me. Y'see, I'm considered the worst Hold-Em player in Sioux Falls. When the other fellas find out I came in second for a $340,000 pot, they'll beat a trail to The Horseshoe Casino."
JACK STRAUSS Houston's Jack Strauss, nicknamed "Tree Top" by fellow players, is one of the most popular contenders in every World Series of Poker classic. He can be counted on to entertain fellow pros with wild, wooley and thoroughly outrageous stories (99 & 44/100% true) about his gambling experiences. A former basketball player with a degree in business ad- ministration from Texas A&M, Strauss is today one of the most feared Hold-Em players anywhere in America. Although he has always been considered a leading poker player, Strauss' fondness for sports betting, crap shooting, horse races, golf, etc., keeps him hard at work playing cards to support such diversions. A poker player since collegiate days, he easily made the transition to professional ranks. Strauss, who has been likened to Paul Newman's character in "The Sting", is one of the most popular and colorful entries in The Horseshoe's World Series of Poker.
AMARILLO SLIM PRESTON Amarillo Slim Preston, World Series champion of 1972, is one of the most written-about poker players of The Horse- shoe Casino's World Series of Poker. Slim's an expert pool shooter, who once topped Minnesota Fats hands down with a broom handle cue. He often exercises -a well-trained talent for unearthing unlikely, high-stakes bets at almost anything from a record-breaking horseback ride to playing Evil Knievel at golf --using a hammer for a club --and beating a ping-pong champ with a Coke bottle paddle. Hailing from Texas, Slim raises cattle and quarter horses on a 3,170-acre ranch near Amarillo. He also tours, lectures, meets with civic dignitaries, and even manages a bit of motion picture fame when he isn't involved in poker. A colorful and popular contender in the World Series event, he is definitely a man to watch. Poker
BRIAN "SAILOR" ROBERTS Brian "Sailor" Roberts, a grand-prize winner of $210,000 in 1975's World Series, learned to shoot dice as a l2-year- old caddie and later emerged from a four-year hitch in the Navy during the Korean War as a full-time gambler. He migrated to Las Vegas from San Angelo, Texas, after earning the reputation of being one of the better card players throughout the Southwest. Roberts has been a Las Vegas regular since the '60's and a deadly opponent in his favorite game --2-7 low-ball. He is also considered a top-flight bridge player as well as an expert in virtually any card game. One of the most popular players in the Horseshoe Casino's World Series of Poker, Roberts enjoys an elite following among the more attractive ladies who find their way to Las Vegas --a distinction which he enjoys to its fullest degree.
BOB HOOKS Edgewood, Texas' Bob Hooks, a World Class Hold-Em enthusiast, considers money management "the most important thing in being a successful, all-around poker player." This, along with his impressive skill, has earned him tremendous winnings and the respect of his fellow pros. He's the epitome of the poker player/businessman, whose many diversified investments have enabled him to hold onto his winnings and acquire a comfortable nest egg while climbing to the highest plateaus of pokerdom. Money management is, in fact, what separates the players at the top of.their profession, according to Hooks, a regular World Series entrant, who'll apply his philosophy once again in the 1979 Hold-Em tournament. He finished second in 1975's championship game and is always a formidable contender. A pleasant, gracious guy, Hooks makes the rounds at Las Vegas' poker casinos on a daily basis for both fun and considerable profit.
BOBBY HOFF Bobby "The Wizard" Hoff is another of Texas' contributions to the big-league poker circuit. A hard-driving player, his aggressive approach has been known to literally force opponents to gamble higher than their conventional game plans. His nickname, "The Wizard", was bestowed upon him in Las Vegas be- cause of his amazing ability to make extremely large stacks of black chips disappear with regularity. As a Texan, it is natural that Hoff's specialty is Hold- Em, but he is also a scratch golfer and has attended the University of Texas on a golf scholarship. Considered a self-made poker player (with a devout respect for Herbert Yardley's "Education of a Poker Player"), he is a fast-living gambler with a penchant for fine wines and an equally expert eye for lovely ladies.
CADILLAC JACK GRIMM Abilene, Texas's "Cadillac Jack" Grimm, an amateur in poker who plays like a pro, according to all the best sources at the World Series, provides formidable competition for everyone. Conservative in his approach and prone to bluffing, "if it's worthwhile," "Cadillac Jack's" forte is- Hold-Em, though he en- joys all forms of poker, as well as bridge. "I play strictly for pleasure, relaxation and fellowship," says the successful "wildcatter", a geology graduate of the University of Oklahoma, who maintains that drilling for oil in the U.S., Canada and Australia is a bigger, tougher gamble than poker. But he's game for all sorts of adventures and thrives on risk, excitement and the unknown. Recently, the poker-playing ex-Marine financed an expedition to Scotland to find the Loch Ness Monster and now possesses photographs which he says support his belief in its existence. In 1976, he organized an expedition along the Rio Grande to find the much-publicized Big Bird, with its 15-foot wingspan. Though he and his companions did not sight the creature, they did get to observe some rare whooping cranes. Recently, Grimm and a la-man team traveled to Mt. Ararat in Turkey in search of Noah's Ark and returned with wood from 45,OOO-year-old timber. A search for Big Foot is in the cards. It's "Cadillac Jack's" loftiest goal --next to winning the World Series of Poker.
HOWARD "TAHOE" ANDREW One of the World Series of Poker's most formidable non- pros, industrial engineer Howard "Tahoe" Andrew placed first after two days of play in last year's big Hold-Em tournament and won both The Horseshoe's Businessmen's and Preliminary Hold-Em tournaments in 1976. Pleasanton, California's Andrew, who refined his gambling skills in Lake Tahoe where he resided for 10 years, has a daredevil reputation. If an award were given out to the player who shoved all his chips to the center of the pot most often, he'd probably win it. "Actually, my winning strategy is to bluff at a conservative player," maintains "Tahoe", who'll make his fourth bid for the World Series championship this year. Also a tennis buff, Andrew spends leisure hours both in the casinos and on the courts. He claims he's a bachelor "because no one could put up with a gambler."
ED "JUNIOR" WHITED A World Class player from Austin, Texas, with a reputation for being a steady winner in top-level play, "Junior" wears many different hats at the poker table. With a style ranging from aggressive to conservative, he plays as well in. a Ring (full) game as he does shorthanded. His forte is no- limit Hold-Em, and he's also an excellent short-card player (gin rummy, knock poker, pitch, etc.). A lifelong gambler, who bought his first shoes at 10 and lost them the next week shooting craps with his cousin, Whited won a grocery store from his uncle the following year playing the same game. A burly man with thick sideburns and hair slicked back in a pompador, he projects an Elvis Presley country-boy image and enjoys fishing and small-game hunting in his spare time. Now a full-time gambler who'll bet on anything from horses to fish, cracks in the sidewalk to license plates, he once made his living raising fighting cocks in Mexico. "Poker playing," says "Junior", "isn't knowing what you have. Anybody can know that. It's knowing what the other guy has. It's that and selling your hand to make the most money. You have to analyze people. If they can be read, I'll do it sooner or later."
DAVID "CHIP" REESE David "Chip" Reese meant to enter law school after graduating from Dartmouth with an economics degree. But his life took an unexpected turn in the summer of '75: en route to visit a pal in California, Chip got sidetracked in Las Vegas and never traveled west of Binion's Horseshoe Casino. His avocation, gambling, became his vocation, and the 27-year- old World Series regular joined the ranks of the poker pros, providing formidable competition to the more seasoned members of the Horseshoe fraternity. "Law doesn't have the same monetary incentive as poker," explains the .cherubic, blond poker buff, whose forte is seven- card stud. Chip's folks still don't accept the argument and were ignorant of their son's decision to venture outside the law game for nearly a year. During that time, they continued to mail checks to him, unaware that the transplanted Ohioan was a highly successful gambler on a lengthy winning streak. Chip's a liberal player who bluffs "all the time", and polishes his poker skills every day. "I'm confident I can win the World Series one year soon," he maintains. And older players concede the talent of the kid who made it all the way to the top ten last year before bowing out. Currently, Chip manages the poker room at the Dunes Casino.
CHICAGO SAM PETRILLO Free-lance poker pro and lifelong gambler, Sam Petrillo began betting friendly games with pals l6 years ago in Chicago bars while working at Sears and, later on, the Milwaukee Road as a timekeeper. In 1971, he left the Windy City, the "real world", his ex-wife and three kids to indulge a propensity for high-stakes poker in Las Vegas. "Chicago Sam" launched his new career by dealing 21 at the Stardust, Sands and Fremont Hotels. But his real interests lay in graduating to the pro ranks in poker. He began playing almost daily and won with sufficient regularity to quit dealing rive years ago. "I've been at it nonstop ever since and I'll never do anything else," he says, chewing his Tiparillo with conviction. Currently, Petrillo plays 11-12 hours, five or six nights a week. "You got to have people with big money. Otherwise, you don't have a challenging game," he insists. Conceding that the World Series is a personal long shot, he views it as the ultimate competition with the biggest prize. And "Chicago Sam" will give it another go in 1979.
JESSIE ALTO Jessie Alto, a nonpro who finished second in 1976's World Series and fifth in 1978, is physically one of the strongest players. He maintains top shape playing racquetball and boasts the colorful background of having been born in Mexico of Lebanese parents, raised in Israel, and calling Houston, Texas his hometown. He speaks several languages fluently. Alto, who makes a living as an auto dealer, has played poker since coming to America at nineteen. He is alert and an effective bluffer and World Class Hold-Em player. He also enjoys the distinction of being called a tireless player. He once played for an entire week without giving way to fatigue or sharpness.
BILL BOYD Seventy-four-year-old Bill Boyd is easily the dominant five-card stud player in The Horseshoe's World Series of Poker. He has not only won the championship in his division every year of play, but is considered so strong that, during one year's tournament, there were no challenges for the championship. Hailing from McNeil, Arkansas, Boyd is an executive of the Golden Nugget Casino and could easily pass for one of Norman Rockwell's paintings of a kindly grandfather. Despite his age, he has tremendous stamina and often plays for days when he can find the competition. By reputa- tion and the actual records, Boyd stands alone as the greatest five-card stud player alive.
GARY "'BONES" BERLAND Gary "Bones" Berland, runner-up to $340,000 in 1977, hopes to celebrate his 28th birthday May 9 by winning a half-million dollars at the 1979 World Series of Poker. The soft-spoken ex-dealer from Gardena, California, a small town outside Los Angeles known throughout the state for its plethora of poker clubs, grew up gambling. While a student at Gardena High, he entered the large Gardena gambling circle before graduating to big-time poker. As a teenager, he enjoyed shooting pool, bowling for money and betting on horses. In 1968, .the Berlands, all of whom are supportive of Bones' gambling career, moved to Las Vegas. Bones entered college and majored in business at the University of Nevada. But after a year-and-a-half of academia, he found studying interfered with gambling and quit school to pursue poker on a full-time basis. Bones' superior skills as a mathematician have served him well. A whiz at Hold-Em, the three-time World Series participant can compute the price on a given hand almost instantaneously. He aims to exercise this advantage toward beating out all competition at Binion's this year. Gary displayed his superior skills during the 1978 Series by winning the Seven-Card Razz championship for $19,200 and placing second in Ace-to-Five low ball for $9,600.
TOMMY HUFNAGLE Schwenksville, Pennsylvania's Tommy Hufnagle came to Las Vegas seven years ago and progressed to the point of being one of the best limit Hold-Em players in town. He ventured into the Horseshoe Casino for the World Series for the first time last year and proved his skill by finishing third. His reputation as one of the world's best all-around poker players derives from his talent as a very high limit player, and if he were to concentrate on no-limit playing, he could very well be number one in the World Series. The handsome, 34-year-old Hufnagle enjoys water skiing, boating and weight-lifting. He's a health-conscious nonsmoker.
GEORGE HUBER Now a Las Vegas resident, George Huber originally hails from Indiana. At 32, he is one of the finest Hold-Em players in the country, having won the $150,000, Amarillo Slim Classic in February of 1979. George led the field on the third day of play in the 1978 World Series of Poker championships and is definitely one of the favorites to cop top honors in this year's contest. A professional gambler for the last ten years, George began his career in Indianapolis, Indiana, leaving a $120-a-week job as a sheet metal worker to take on the local hoosiers in poker. Known as a conservative player, George is characteristic of the growing new breed of young poker professionals who are making their mark in the game.
posted by
poker
@
7:10 AM
0 comments
Friday, February 04, 2005
Slot Machine Odds
Slot machine odds vary greatly depending on what type of machine you are playing. A progressive machine gives you much worse odds of winning compared to a straight slot machine, yet the payouts are much higher. Poker
For a one-reel game, the odds of winning are about 1 in every 64, while a three reel game is about 1 in 643. With a progressive game that pays out hundreds of thousands of dollars, you can imagine that the odds of winning would be much higher, probably approaching one in a million.
posted by
poker
@
10:13 AM
0 comments
Doubling for Less, A powerful tournament strategy
In casino blackjack, the rules for doubling and splitting have one key difference. Poker. While both of these rules allow a player to increase his wager after the initial cards are dealt, splitting specifically requires the player to match the original bet amount with an equal wager on the second hand, while doubling down has no such restriction. The casino will gladly allow you to "double for less", by adding an amount less than the original bet in return for drawing only one additional card. That's not surprising, since doubling for less is never the correct strategy for a player at a regular game. If it is advantageous to double, it's best to get as much money on the table as possible. Remember, you're also giving up the ability to draw more than one card to your hand. Poker
While doubling for less is always a mistake in a live game, tournament play is different. In fact, when used properly, doubling for less is a powerful technique for getting an extra edge over your opponents. In this article, we'll look at two examples when it's appropriate.
In the article on position, I discussed the importance of position in tournament play, and noted that players to your left are a bigger threat than players to your right. The reason is simple. On most hands, the players to your left get to see your bet and playing decisions before they make their own decisions. As a result, having a second opportunity to change the amount of your wager can be valuable. That means doubling and splitting are more useful than in regular table play.
Example 1: Stealing a shot at the lead
Let's imagine that you are trailing a player to your left by $50, and you are nearing the end of the round. If you can't afford to wait until the button passes you to make a move for the lead, doubling or splitting can be your best shot. Let's say you bet $100, and your opponent matches that bet behind you. The cards are dealt and you have a hard 12, he has a hard 18, and the dealer shows a 4 upcard. Here's a situation where basic strategy says you should stand. However, it's also a great opportunity to steal the lead from your opponent. By doubling your 12, you can take the lead if successful. However, since this is generally a poor play, you should double for as little as possible to accomplish your goal. In this case, doubling for $55 or $60 is appropriate.
While this can be a strong play, there are several factors you should consider before pulling the trigger on the double. How many hands are left’ How many hands will he be betting behind you’ What is the maximum bet, and what are the bankrolls’ Perhaps the most critical factor is how damaging a losing swing would be to your chances. If you bust the 12, and the dealer busts behind you, you are now $305 behind. If the max bet is $300, that's a terrible handicap, and unless the round is nearly over, you should perhaps skip this opportunity and hope for a better shot later. On the other hand, if the max bet is $1000, and you both have plenty of chips, then a $305 deficit is no big deal, and this is probably a great time to take a shot.
Note that the same factors apply to your opponent after you double. If you succeed in drawing a good card to your hand, he may consider doubling his hard 18 behind you. While it's almost a sure loser, if a negative swing is not a big deal it might be the right play for him.
Example 2: Forcing your opponent to make a choice
Here's a powerful technique that I've never seen mentioned in print before. Though it's far from unknown among tournament pros, I've seen very few players use it, although the situation comes up pretty frequently.
Back at the table, you're still trailing Lefty by $50, but now it's the last hand. You've bet $250, and Lefty matches it. You have an 11, Lefty has a pair of face cards, and the dealer shows an 8. You have a basic strategy double-down, and it is quite apparent that you should double if you want to have any reasonable chance of winning the round. In the last example, we had a poor double-down and wanted to minimize the cost by doubling for less.
This time, with a solid basic strategy double, most players would choose to double for the full amount. That would be a huge mistake! Consider what happens if you draw a poor card on your double. If your double ends up stiff, with a total of less than 17, Lefty can now lock you out of any chance to win. He can split the face cards, stand on any stiff, and you have zero chance of winning the round. It's over!
To eliminate this possibility, you should double for less. If you double for anything between $55 and $195, you've created a difficult choice for your opponent. He can no longer lock you out with a split. If he splits, and the dealer beats both of you, you now advance instead of him. Since he can't split for less, you force him to choose between "first high" and "first low". He must decide whether he wants to cover you winning or the dealer winning, since he cannot do both. All this, just because you doubled for less than the full amount.
This tactic works wonders, no matter what the dealer upcard, and almost no matter what you draw on your double-down. Doubling for less is almost always preferable to doubling for the full amount any time your opponent has a pair that they would prefer to split rather than double.
This is a powerful play, and it arises often enough that it deserves a name. Since I've never seen it mentioned by other authors, I'll go out on a limb and christen it "Ken's Quandary", with the quandary being your opponent's, after you double down. Few plays will provoke a stronger grimace from across the table.
The Powerful Rule of 2,4, and 5
A few years back, in an article in Blackjack Confidential magazine, I first detailed an idea that has proven to be among the most useful tournament strategy shortcuts that I know. The "Rule of 2, 4, and 5" allows you to quickly determine an optimal bet in many situations where you are trailing the table leader, but must bet ahead of him. This tool belongs in every tournament player’s bag of tricks, and deserves another look. While I’m at it, I’ll add a few extra items to the mix.
One of the more frustrating spots at a tournament table is when you’re behind in chip count, and betting in front of the leader. No matter what you bet, the leader has the ability to roughly match your bet and snare both the high and the low for this hand. Add to that a tournament rule that limits the time you are allowed to think before betting, and it can be tough to make a good bet. Fortunately, there’s a great shortcut that you can use to choose a bet size that maximizes your chances of passing the leader, without having to do a lot of calculations.
As usual, we’ll use some concrete examples here, so get ready to think a little. Let’s imagine our tournament allows betting limits of $5 to $1000, and we’re trailing the leader with $2000 in chips compared to his $2050. The good news is that we’re only $50 out of the lead. The bad news is that the leader can margin our bet easily, since we’re "on the button" and must bet first. The dealer is awaiting your betting decision, and time is running out. How can you decide the best bet size’ If there are several hands to go yet in the round, it would be nice to take the lead here, but we don’t want to risk any more chips than are necessary to help the cause.
Since the leader can match your bet behind you, you can’t catch him with a single bet win unless he makes a betting mistake, or you get better cards. However, options for doubling, splitting, and blackjack all give you additional ways to overtake the leader. Let’s look at a few of these possibilities.
First, consider how much the leader can bet behind you. His optimal bet will likely be whatever you bet, plus almost all of his lead. If you bet $100, he can bet up to $149 and still have both the high and low. (For definitions of the "high" and "low", see this previous article: Free Hits.)
You’ll overtake the leader if you win while he pushes or loses, and also if you push while he loses. That’s true anytime you bet at least your deficit plus a chip. However, your bet of $100 adds an extra way for you to win, that the minimal $51 bet does not provide. Let’s assume that he bets $149 behind you. Now, if you can win a double-down bet, you’ll overtake him even if he wins his hand. You gain $200, he gains $149, and now you have a $1 lead. That’s no coincidence. But, we can do better yet.
This time, you bet $200. He places an optimal bet of $249. You’ve just added an extra way to win. A double-down obviously still wins for you, but now look what happens if you draw a blackjack. A blackjack on your $200 bet pays $300. If he wins his $249, and you win $300, you’re $1 ahead again. Again, no coincidence there.
One more time, this time you bet $250. Your opponent bets $299. This time, he’s the lucky one, drawing a blackjack. You groan, but then push out the money to double on whatever hand you have. If you succeed in your double down, you win $500. The leader picked up only $448.50. You now lead by $1.50.
Each of these decisions involves several calculations, and going through this process at the table is clearly a problem. That’s where the shortcut comes in. You’re guaranteed to have these extra ways to win if you simply make sure you bet at least the following multiples of your deficit. In our example, we had a $50 deficit going into the hand:
Bet 2x your deficit ($100): You win with a double-down over a single bet win by the leader.
Bet 4x your deficit ($200): You win with a blackjack over a single bet win by the leader.
Bet 5x your deficit ($250): You win with a double-down even over a blackjack by the leader.
So, when in doubt, try to bet 5 times the deficit. If a bet that large endangers your position to other players at the table, consider betting 4 times or 2 times the deficit instead. Worst case, drop back to 1x plus a chip.
Sometimes these multiples overdo it, and a smaller bet will accomplish the same thing. If your bet is near or at the maximum, the leader won’t be able to bet much of his lead on top of the matching bet. Also, if betting must be in multiples of $5, sometimes these multiples overshoot the target by a little. But, the real beauty of this rule is its simplicity. It’s quick and easy to calculate, and you’re guaranteed to have the benefits described.
You’ll also often find that the leader will not make anywhere near an optimal bet behind you. They may bet too little, and give you extra ways to overtake them, or often, they’ll overbet and give you the low on the hand. Even though you have a considerable bet working, you might be pulling for the dealer to wipe out the table.
Of course, in each of these cases, the leader can double-down behind you to retake the high. But, hey, you’re trailing, on the button. Of course you’re an underdog! You have to make the best of your circumstances. Using the Rule of 2, 4, and 5 gives you an easy way to do just that.
posted by
poker
@
8:25 AM
0 comments
Friday, January 28, 2005
Poker Tell
What is a Poker Tell? A tell is any habit, behavior, or physical reaction, that gives other players more information about your hand. The following are tips supplied to PokerTop10 by the pros, and can apply against novice or advanced players. Remember, in poker there are many contradictions and exceptions to the rule. Also, experienced pros will give out false tells to fool players.
1. Watch the EyesThis is why many pros wear sunglasses or visors/caps when playing, they know that the eyes rarely lie. For example, many players can't help but stare at big hole cards, so their length of time peeking is longer. Conversely, if a player is looking to steal the pot, he may look to his left to see if the remaining players, who haven't yet acted, have quickly glanced at their cards and are likely to fold. Another example, a player may try to ask you questions about your hand, knowing that people rarely can "look someone straight in the eyes" while being dishonest.
2. Facial ExpressionAgain, many pros try to disguise their entire face by wearing a cap and looking downward. This is to avoid the classic stare-down that poker pros are famous for. They may try to study your face for nervousness (detecting a weak hand), or even look for repetitive characteristics like a body "tic". You may have obvious unhappiness in your face when your hand is weak, and conversely, you may show a contrasting show of confidence when your hand is strong.3. Weak is Strong/Strong is Weak In its most simplistic form, this usually applies to novice players but frequently applies to pros as well. Basically, players like to be actors, and when they have a monster hand they tend to look disinterested. For example: "Oh, is it my turn to act" or "Oh I guess I will play these cards". Alternatively, a player increasing the level of his voice while raising the pot, and trying to look intimidating.. may be running a bluff.4. AnxietyAnxiety typically occurs in people when they are confronted, or anticipating confrontation. Psychologists call this the "Fight or Flight" stimulus response, which links back to the days when we were cavemen/cavewomen. Physical changes happen including flexing of muscles, eye pupil dilation, palpitating heart rate, dry throat. In poker, when someone has a big hand they are typically ready for confrontation and can exhibit some of these characteristics. You may see the chest expanding abnormally, or you may notice the players voice become slightly higher as he makes a comment. Some of the top players in the game will stare at the vein on the top-side of your face for blood pressure changes. During a bluff, the player may demonstrate anxiety, but if he knows he will fold the hand if re-raised (non-confrontational end) may look quite comfortable.
5. Trembling Hands
Also, a byproduct of anxiety, beware of a player whose hands are shaking, this nervousness can represent a big hand.
6. Glance at ChipsAgain, relating to the eyes. It is common for players to quickly glance at their chips if they connect with the board after a Flop. This may be a subconscious reaction, but the player is already planning his attack.7. Peeking Hole Cards on FlopSome players will take another look at their hole cards when, for example, the board is showing a potential 3 card flush draw. Typically, the player is looking to see if one of his cards is connecting, because he remembers only that the two cards are different suits.
8. Repetitive Betting PatternsUsually the most revealing tells are based on the way a player habitually bets during particular situations. For example, maybe the player always checks when he has made the nuts, or a player may regularly fold after being re-raised.
9. Body Posture/AttitudeSome players show obvious changes in their posture based on their attitude/hand strength. For instance, you may notice their shoulders drop/slump when they are not confident (weak hand). Conversely, you may notice the player is very attentive and sitting in an erect position when he has strength. You may also notice that a player who bluffs a lot, leans forward in a confrontational way... remember Strong is Weak!
10. Chip StackingWhen you first sit down at a table, study the way the players stack their chips. Although it is a generalization, loose aggressive players typically maintain unorganized/sloppy stacks, while tight conservative players keep well organized/neat stacks.
posted by
poker
@
10:34 AM
0 comments
|
